They all need the SuperNanny.

That and the odd smack.

It’s difficult, I think. Fine line between discipline and abuse, and people are afraid now lest they be acused of abuse and have their kids taken off em.

I think a few ‘fatal beatings’ are good for any child!! (ref. Rowan Atkinson live).

2 steps to bring up a kid that’s not a brat:
1. Dont name it Damien
2. Smack the little bugger’s

Perfectly simple. That’s all my parents did and I turned out ok…

Besides the obvious lack of discipline in todays society, I think one of the unfortunate things is the breakdown of the clear seperation between abuse and discipline meaning some people abuse instead of discipline and others who discipline are wrongfully accused of abuse – they are clearly different! Abuse is born out of retaliation on the parents behalf out of anger (regardless of whether the kid did something bad or not). Discipline is a controled deliberate action of love and correction for the child. If the parent is angry, they would do themselves and they child a favour to cool there own anger before considering if discipline is necessary, because of course, an accident on the kid behalf is not worthy of discipline – man ya could write a thousand word essay on this! It is most unfortunate that many of the higher powers (ie those with legal powers to remove kids from parents) don’t know this difference and think the whole lot is abuse. I’m greatful for the discipline my parents showed me even if it did hurt at the time!

I too once thought like this, Josh, but, it is a fine line, because, to be honest, it can go either way without the parent changing their tact. In addition, even the simplest stuff (like a hot day, or rainy weather) can send kids troppo. It’s a bit unfair to say that parents are bad because the kids are ratty. And the little bastard you saw today might be usually the wonderful angel, just today has a cold. I guess I have two things on this as a parent. First is that it is people who think a bit like you have expressed here Josh that give people like me the jitters in that, if eg. I am out with Zane and he cracks a darky for whatever reason then you have me pidgeonholed as a bad parent on that one viewing. Second, its all well and good to think this way, and everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I’d love to hear your views when your first turns five!! Trust me, your thinking about this stuff changes a bit when you are dealing with it 24/7 and understand it from the inside! And if you end up with a brat, I wouldn’t shoot you, dude. There might just be legitimate reason (medical, psychological, other) that on the surface means your kid looks like a brat, but in reality it’s something deeper… This is no excuse for slack parenting, but remember that not everything is as it seems on the surface. Even God (thankfully) looks past the surface stuff. Love and blessings, dude. Good to hear you and Mel are both doing great. Mark G

Marky, I know what Josh meant in his post, and he wasn’t talking about the kid who might chuck a wobbly in the supermarket. We see that a lot, and usually smile at the parent, because we both realise kids have their moments, just as adults do. Kids will always push their boundaries and test the limits (and their parents!)

What Josh is talking about is the kid who is running up and down the aisles, taking things off the shelves and chucking them on the ground, pushing into people and generally causing chaos, whilst the parent stands there and does nothing.

And I think you’ll find that two of the four good kids Josh mentions are yours – because you love them enough to call them out on their behaviour.

Ahh yes, but what about the times when Zane does this and, in exasperation, we throw our hands up in the air and just shop so can get out of there and get him home… I guess my point (or question) is whether you can make a judgement call on a kid or parent on one event (a la the child you describe above)? I, like yourselves, would love to think that I get it right on the “bloody usless parents” we encounter, not just in the course of public life but also in our interactions now that Lily is at school. But I guess there are times (granted not many) where there has been method in the parents madness. Eg. one of our strategies at the moment is that if Zane throws a wobbly in the middle of the shopping centre (ie. drops to the ground and kicks and screams) we walk off. Sometimes that means someone stepping over him, or having to watch this “demon child” kicking and screaming in a heap on the floor of the McDonalds Restaurant we happen to be in at the time (like the other day). BUT this is a part of our discipline approach which, in this case, is beginning to work. He now knows that tantrums get you nowhere. It’s highly likely we offended and upset people, and even had them judge us or him in the process, but it worked. You might call us good parents becuase now you know the full story, but what if you have been in Maccas that day? Would I be on the evil parent list? I totally agree that unruly children are “totally unasseptibull” (thanks Jo Frost) but I guess what I have learned is that judgement should wait and grace be given until proven guilty.